What does God think about religion?

I have a fairly benign view of religion.  Don't get me wrong, religion is huge, it impacts every aspect of people's lives.  It has been the cause of many wars, or at least the justification given for them.  It's the foundation that many countries are built on. So maybe I should say... I have a neutral view of religion.  I think it is helpful, for the most part, for people, and I think a lot of harm has and does come from religion.  I think it's here to stay, and I have no argument with that.  I believe if you took all religion away, before you knew it, people would congregate and create new religions.  People need and want a community, they want life's questions answered for them.  It is... what it is, but my question is what does God think about it?  I can't really ask a religion that question, because I will only get a biased answer.  I can't really ask myself, because I don't know.  So I thought to myself, who would have some insight into this question?  Once again, I turned to the NDE people, they say they have talked to God, they come from varying beliefs and backgrounds, and for the most part, (I hope anyway) they don't have a specific agenda.  So...having said that, I simply googled:  NDE what God thinks about religion.  Brilliant, right?  Thanks I thought so ;)

I found some very interesting stories and quotes on this website .  I'll share some of my favorites:

This quote is by Kevin Williams, the creator of the near-death.com website.  To learn more about Kevin go to, spinninglobe.net>1kevinde .  From studying many NDE he concludes that:

"Heaven is not about religious beliefs, but about spiritual actions.  It is not true, as some people believe, that we get to heaven by giving verbal assent to belief in God.  It is love, not religious doctrines, that creates spiritual growth...although religion, in itself, is not important to God, all religions are necessary because there are people who need what they teach.  For this reason all religions are precious in the sight of God.  All religions refer to the same God.  All religions are different ways of trying to describe the same God.  After death, if you insist upon searching for an old man on a throne as God, you will do this for awhile until you get the idea that you are following an illusion."          

The following quotes are from the same website that is linked above:

Topic, Religion is not as Important as Many People Believe

"Doctrine and creed and race mean nothing.  No matter what we believe we were all children joined under one God.  The only rule is God's true law:  Do unto others as you would have them do into you." (May Eulitt)

"God does not care which religion is best.  God does not care what religion people practice.  They are all a blooming facet of the whole.   All religions refer to the same God."  (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

"Religious beliefs have little to do with what we experience in the transition from one realm to another, except that we are allowed to see briefly the teacher or guru that we followed.  Regardless of cultural or religious beliefs, we have the same basic experience at death."  (Betty Bethards)

Topic, Love is the True "Religion"

"I asked the light, which I call Christ, how people from other religions get to heaven.  I was shown that the group, or organization, we profess alliance to is inconsequential.  What is important is how we show our love for God by the way we treat each other.  This is because when we pass to the spiritual realm we will all be met by him, which substantiates the passage, 'No one comes to the Father, but by me.'  The light showed me that what is important is that we love God and each other, and that it isn't what a person says, but the love in their being that is examined in the afterlife." (Sandra Rogers)

"How are we saved, by unselfish love.  When we love unselfishly, our vibrations are so high that the only place we'll fit into is heaven..." (Arthur Yensen)

"People who truly practice the religion of love will find themselves in a universal sphere where everyone understands that true religion is to love others as ourselves." (Nora Spurgin) 

"There are only two true religions - the religion of love and the religion of fear." (Sandra Rogers)

Topic, Religions have an Important Purpose

"I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world.  Why didn't God give us only one church, one pure religion?  The answer came to me with the purest of understanding.  Each of us, I was told, is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge.  Each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill.  No one church can fulfill everybody's needs at every level. (Betty Eadie)

"God created differences in religion because of the different lessons we all need to learn."  (Sandra Rogers)

"Religions have a place and any one person in that religion is on the path of learning what is important for that soul." (Darlene Holman)

Topic, Some Religious Beliefs can be Harmful, Strict Fundamentalism

"Deeply held religious beliefs come into visible expression in the spirit realms, just as they do in the physical realm.  We create our own experience.  Eventually, restrictive minds slowly open and expand allowing them to accept greater understanding.  Then they are ready to move from their limited concept of life to the eternal adventure, for there is evermore to know, to do, to be." (Jan Price)

"The most difficult thing for a person who has been deeply steeped in a particular religious tradition is to realize that the form alone is not what elevates a person; it is the heart." (Nora Spurgin)

"Some Christians enter the spirit world and are led into thoughts they had during their physical life about the soul's state after death, heaven, and hell, until they come to resent their former utter ignorance of things like this, and resent the Church's ignorance of such matters." (Emanuel Swedenborg)

"Those religions which claim some singular relationship with God, claim superiority over others, or exclude people for various reasons, go against God's law that we love one another as we love ourselves."  (Sandra Rogers)

"God is not a member of any church or religion.  It is the churches and the religions that are members within the vastness and the glory that is God.  There is no one religion just as there is no chosen people or person, nor any single way of regarding what cannot be fully comprehended."  (P.M.H. Atwater)

Topic, Extremely Faulty Religious Doctrines

"Some Christians expect heaven to be a place where people stand in front of the throne worshipping forever.  Such a view of heaven is boring and childlike.  There are so many heavenly realms... "(Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

"We do not sit at the feet of a man with a long white beard called God.  God is within, whether you are in or out of the body."  (Betty Bethards)

"When we enter the spirit realm, we are given glimpses of things we expected to see in order to bring comfort.  We may briefly see a teacher we worshipped in our lifetime: Jesus, Buddha, or any other guru, according to your expectations.  But gently we are brought out of many of our illusions and are shown that we have not landed in an ultimate paradise with gold paved streets."  (Betty Bethards)

I found these quotes full of wisdom and very much in line with the way I view life.  (That maybe why I found them full of wisdom) lol.  But they are presented here for you to ponder and judge for yourself. Good luck in your journey and I hope you never stop searching, questioning, and growing, and I hope that all your efforts, doubts, and seeking will lead you to find joy in this life and bring joy to others.  I don't think any of us can ask for more than that. 

Going Through Notes

I was cleaning through my office yesterday, and was about to throw away a notebook.  I'm forever writing down thoughts that I have, or notes to an interesting book or interview, whatever, then I get these notes spread all over my house.  Anyway, I was just about to toss this notebook when I decided to glance through it, needless to say it never hit the garbage can because I saw the following story in it:

The story is about a NDE, that I think was supposed to have really happened, but I could be wrong about that.   Let me just say...I'm not sure about NDE's, I find some of them interesting, but I have no idea if they are real or not.  This one seems to be tainted with Mormon ideology, so... you can take it as seriously as you want, but I think there is wisdom in it.  From what I remember, this person, Allen R. Barlow, was a member of the church, who had become aware of it's false claims and left the church.  He had a NDE, in which he sees his deceased grandmother, who was a Mormon.  He asks her some pretty tough questions. In my notes I have written the words, "Main Points," so I guess these are the main points, as I saw them.

I'm just going to write them as they are in my notebook, sorry for not referencing this, or adding a link, I'm not sure where this came from, but a simple google search would probably provide more information. With that introduction, here we go, I believe it starts with a question from his grandmother:
  
"Why have you come before you are whole?"

(This is his response to his grandmother, Allen's words will be in blue, his grandmother's in red)

"Freedom is a miserable thing don't you think?  So painful."

"Painful to be sure.   To those who really know it, it gives moments more painful than death or birth.  But don't say miserable, say breathtaking or better yet, exhilarating.  There is no growth without it, and growth is life."

           Freedom = Growth = Life

"But did it have to be so confusing?  All I wanted was just to be shown a clear path. I could have managed the rest just fine."

"The rest is virtually nothing, making the path is mortality...hacking your way through the brush of temptation and persecution, stumbling up the hills of uncertainty and scaling the cliffs of ignorance, quenching your thirst at the springs of love.  These are the very things that bring you The Goal."

"It's so easy isn't it?  Make a path, and where should it go?  Hey, no problem we'll send down a hundred prophets (all with suspect credentials) to clearly explain it to you, and they will point a hundred different directions and then you can take your pick.  What? not enough help --tough break that's all there is, no maps on this trip.  No compass either." 

"I expected more of you, life's goal is plainly to draw near to God and become like him.  That cannot be a novel concept to you.  You must have heard it your whole life...which of the prophets didn't teach it to you?  And how shall you accomplish it without learning and loving?  No compass?  Who can doubt the validity of His path when he feels that inner peace that can come in no other way?  The goal and its direction have always been quite clear."

"Come on, people need a detailed plan. If they would have just made the steps plain and the leaders authority unquestionable, we good ones would have followed unfailingly."

"So there's the root of it...you think the answer is more valuable than the ability to work the problem.  It's not true.  Simple obedience is a necessary element in life, but its no virtue in and of itself.  Only as a forerunner to understanding can it aid the purpose of life. Then God asks obedience of His children, its for their own protection as they begin to explore new and unfamiliar realms.  But we must grow beyond it...

"Grandmother does God really answer the prayers of mortals?"

"Be grateful that God doesn't base His interactions with us on our often confused perception of our needs.  He loves us too much for that and gives greater gifts.  To those who truly seek Him.  He grants not what we ask, but what we need.  In your case, I don't know, let me speculate, He may have felt it time to dispel your confusion about the things in life that matter most.  Let us suppose he had answered your questions in just the way you wanted. Would it have made you love your fellow man more?  Increased your integrity?  Enlarged your creativity? Improving your ability to discern truth? Or would you have become ever less empathic toward your fellow man's struggles with life perplexities?  Small wonder then, that He seems to favor comforting, strengthening, and inspiring over clarifying factual curiosities."

   

   

  

Salvation versus Happiness

As Mormon's, and most any religion I assume, your goal in life is salvation.  I'm not sure you really think about it that way, all the time anyway, but that is the goal.  Your religion, whichever it is, owns your salvation, and they make sure you feel the need to adhere to its beliefs, so that your salvation is secure.  The teachings are easy to believe, no matter how ridiculous they are, because there's little incentive to examine them, since you're saved.

As I've learned that the church that I was born and raised in, is not what it claims to be, and no other religion seems to pass a thorough examination either, I have begun to question salvation in general. I believe in God, I just don't believe we need to be saved in this life, I think this life has another purpose.  Religion teaches you that you need salvation, and the institution that tells you that, also happens to hold the keys to that salvation.  I think this is a false notion, that gives religion a hold on your thinking, time, family, and money.  It takes a very courageous person to examine their religion, it's easy to see the falsehoods in other religions, but very challenging to see them in your own.  Why is it so challenging?  Because you are taught that anything or anyone that is suggesting to you to look at your religion is dangerous and your salvation may be at stake if you take a look, and it is foolish to listen to anyone who is obviously wrong, or evil, or trying to dupe you.  It's much safer to only look at things that are approved by the church... says the church.  After all, your church is only concerned about you and your salvation!  Or, you might just tell yourself, I don't have to look I know I have the truth.  And how do you know that?  You have been told that by all those around you.  You associate with people that believe the same as you, and everything you do and feel, reinforces that truth to you. 

So if this life is not about salvation, what is God up to?  I'll tell you what I think God is all about, and this really isn't new thinking for me, the "no need for salvation" is new to me, but the rest isn't.  I've said before, I believe that God is love.  I think God wants us to learn to be happy.  I really think this life is about happiness, and learning how to be happy, and making others happy.  Love is the main ingredient in finding that happiness.  Love is the basis of it all, and if I have this wrong, I choose to live my life this way anyway.  And any God that proclaims to be a God of love, could not possibly be unhappy with a person who sees life this way and chooses to live life this way.  What would be the point in condemning or damming a person who chose to see life as a learning ground for attaining happiness, and trying to make others happy through love and compassion.    This may seem like a very simplified answer to life, but just try it!  Have the courage to let go of your beliefs, just long enough to see the simplicity of love, happiness, joy, peace, and acceptance.  You may like it so much, that you never go back to a prior way of thinking again.

A God of Love

I almost quite doing my blog last night.  All I wanted was to close the door to everything, curl up in a little ball and let the world pass me by.  I'm tired of religion, every aspect of it: tired of leaving mine, tired of talking to people about it, tired of hearing about theirs, tired of being asked questions, tired of thinking about it, tired, tired, tired.  Can I just say this has been a hard year.  Good-bye to 2014, the year from Hell.  Good-bye to you! 

So why am I sitting at my computer this morning?  ...why... because I can't let go of God.  And I frankly don't care who God is, male, female, a spirit, the trinity, three separate beings, I don't care, because until I die, I won't really know.  So, I'm just sticking with what I do know...God is love.  And when we miss that, we miss it all!  Who knew those four adorable mop heads with British accents held the answer all along..."all you need is love." 


There's something about God that I just can't give up on... and it's love.

That's my story and I sticking to it!  That's the God I know and that's the God I will defend.  Here's the kicker though, love isn't easy.   Like Christ said, its easy to love those that love you, but others it's a bit more difficult.  But, and here's the good part... when you know love is the answer, at least you know which direction you need to go, and that's half the battle!  The other half is actually doing it;  that's hard and God knows it, so this life gives us PLENTY of opportunities to learn it.  And when we fail because pride gets in the way, and we become miserable, we can turn to love and dig our way out of the mess that we created, and try again.  Always try again, and again, and again! 

Many years ago, I had this most adorable friend named Grace.  She was my next door neighbor and 30 years older then me.  I loved her; we had so much fun together!  Grace had the best sense of humor, we laugh and laugh, and Grace had style, let me tell you she had style.  She was just one of those rare gems that comes into your life and adds a spark that you cherish forever, and even though I moved a few miles away, we still remained good friends.

A couple of years into our friendship, Grace was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.  We went to the doctors appointments together, I was by her side through chemo, she went into a short remission and then the end came.  My spark was gone, this adorable, full of life person was gone.

We had a neighbor named Natalie that was also our friend.  Sometimes we would have little luncheons at our houses.  One day, after Grace had passed away, Natalie stopped by my house.  I invited her in and we sat and talked about Grace.  Natalie seemed very emotional during our conversation and I wasn't quite getting what she was trying to tell to me.  (Oh...let me explain before I go on, Grace and I were both Mormons, and Natalie was a born again Christian, I don't remember which church she attended)  Natalie told me that she had vowed to herself that she wasn't going to let another of her Mormon friends go to Hell, and that she was here to warn me of the danger of me going to Hell.  Natalie had intended to warn Grace, but failed to do so and now Grace was in Hell and it tormented Natalie, so she vowed not to let that happen again and she was there to save me. 

I have to admit that at first I didn't grasp what she was saying.  But finally I did.  And I asked Natalie, I remember the exact words I used.  "You mean our darling Grace is in Hell?"  And when I realized that that was what she was telling me, I just said, "I don't know that God."  Let me just add here, that Natalie was not offending me at all.  I knew she was coming to me out of love and concern, and I respected that. I hugged her and told her I appreciated her coming, because I did.  But I also remember thinking to myself, I'm so glad I don't have to explain that God to anyone.  Really, more than anything else about our conversation, I was glad I didn't have to explain that God to anyone and that my concept of God did not send darling people like Grace to Hell.  You may recall in my last post that I said I don't believe in a pointless God and that in my opinion is a pointless God, it's the exact definition of a pointless God!

People confess God, say He is love...but sometimes miss the big picture.....GOD IS LOVE!  So anything unloving, like sending Grace to Hell just because she happens to be the wrong religion, isn't very loving is it?  Could it be that it's not God that isn't loving, but the religion that is proclaiming that Grace is going to Hell that isn't very loving?  You know the old joke... Christianity, isn't very Christian, or Gandhi's famous quote. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."  Don't get me wrong, I do like Christian's, I consider myself one, but Christianity has a lot of explaining to do, and so many of its beliefs do NOT follow what Christ taught.

We went out to dinner the other night with our friends who are very kind, good people; after we ordered and were sitting chatting at the table, the wife asked us, "what do your kids think about your leaving the church?"  They looked intensely interested in hearing our answer.  The question kind of threw me a bit, I wasn't expecting it.  So I sat there for a minute to gather my thoughts.  Well first of all, two of our kids are not active members, so it doesn't bother them any, and the other two are very independent thinkers, especially our son.  He loves to discuss religion and would never be swayed by anything we said.  Our daughter, it has been a bit harder on.  Those were the thoughts going through my head, but I don't think I explained that to them; I think we began to explain our current state of thinking if I remember right.  But while we were talking, I asked them what they believed about why we were here, what was this life for?  I was very interested to know what they believed, as they are, I would guess Evangelical.  They said that God created us because He wanted people to return to Him that choose to worship Him.  He said, "God created us because He wanted people to worship Him and that free agency was important because He wanted people who choose to worship Him, God could have created people to worship Him, but God wanted us to choose it because that was more meaningful to Him."

At this point, I can hardly put the words together to make a sentence.  "You mean to tell me that your God, created all these people knowing that some would not choose to worship Him and would be cast down to Hell as a result and suffer there, just so He can have a group of people who choose to worship Him live with Him in heaven, even though He could have created people to worship Him, He wanted those who chose it because it is more meaningful."  And if the cost of that meaningfulness is to send some, many actually, people to Hell, so be it, that's the cost.  Okay, I have heard this same scenario too many times to just say, "I don't know that God."  This night I had to defend my purposeful God, from this pointless God, and I said, "I would not worship that God."  Is that so bad?  I wouldn't worship that God.  I worship a God who loves all of His children and shows that love to us by creating a world and experiences for us to grow and learn to Love as He does.  I believe He's bringing us all back to Him.  What all that in tells I don't know, He's the one that's Omnipotent not me, and if Christ's atonement is necessary to do that, then I believe in that.  I have a hope in Christ.  But I have a bigger HOPE and trust in a purposeful God that has a bigger plan that includes our becoming like Him, meaning learning to love like Him.  And where that all leads to in the next life I don't know, I think that is where faith comes in, we don't have the whole plan, but I have faith in it. 

Let me pause here, to say, I really mean no offense to our friends, they mean well and that is their belief and I don't want to be disrespectful. I really don't!  That's why I don't like religion.  It divides people, it causes arguments, it destroys family and friend relationships.  I have no ill will towards anyone and their beliefs and to quote Mormon doctrine, "let them worship how, where, and what they may."  I really believe in that.  And I know the hearts of Christians are good, very good, as are the hearts of Mormons, who are Christians.  And I know that born again Christians would take exception to the way I explained their God, I'm sure there is a lot more purpose and meaning to their beliefs, but you should hear what it sounds like to an outsider, this really is what it sounds like.  So now that I have made a lot of enemies, let me again say I love you all, I simply choose to believe in a bigger God, or at least a bigger plan.  And if I'm wrong you can come visit Grace and I in Hell, I'm sure we will need ministering to.

So I guess for now, I'm sticking with the Beatles... all you need is love.  Hey why not, I like their music too!

What Do You Believe Now?

I have a dear friend that joined the Church when she was in her late teens.  She was raised Jehovah's Witness, then joined the Mormon Church, then left it in her mid to late twenty's; I would call her Agnostic now, I think she would agree with that.  I contacted her the other day to tell her I too had left the Mormon Church.  She asked me some questions about what I believe now, and since I had been wanting to do a post on that I will include some of my answers to her here.  Not that what I believe is that important, but I think it's helpful to share with others our beliefs, even though beliefs are not a stagnant thing and they change as we grow and experience different things in life.  That's a good thing.  We don't want to become stagnant in our thinking.  So if you are in a stage that is difficult because your belief system has been challenged, just look around at all the gifts that is bringing you.  You are no longer stuck thinking a certain way, you are now free to experiment, to question, to challenge, to ask hard questions, to peek behind a curtain, uncover that stone.  You can now get down and dirty and fall of the pedestal that says, you own the truth; it's called humility, and it's a very powerful tool for learning, growing, loving, and finding happiness.  Don't ever be afraid of humility... it's God's best tool.  As hard and challenging as it is to admit to yourself that you have been viewing life through biased lenses, (and we all view life that way) and as grave and disturbing as it is to question one's faith or to lose that faith, the fears you will loose, the compassion you will gain, the joy of questioning, learning, seeking, experiencing life in new and exciting ways, far out way the price.  Just try it on, take it for a test drive, you will love it!  You might think, it's too dangerous, too frightening to question your views.  Let me just reply to that with:  it's very dangerous to stay stuck in a mindset that isn't correct, and no matter what your mindset is, I guarantee there are things in it that are not correct.  Why live life thinking that they are?  And as for it being frightening to exam your beliefs, I guarantee that you are frightened right now, about something.  There is something in your belief system that is frightening you: the government, society, your children's choices or potential choices, global warming, the Second Coming, Obama, terrorism, racism, the economy, the future, death, illness, salvation, or a million other fears. and the sad part is, we come to these fears with a biased mind, in which we have staked everything, and we let these fears play out in our mind and life for maybe no reason.  I read a book once called, Loving What Is, it's a great read, and the author says she puts anything that is out of her ability to control into "God's" category, even if you don't believe in God, she calls it that, just to remind herself that, "I have no control over that, and I will not waste anymore time worrying about it," I will leave that up to the powers that be.  But, if your belief system is so strong and you think you are so right, you will still buy into your fears, thinking that you are wiser and know more, I guarantee it, I have lived it.
Now to my friend's questions: she asked if I had lost faith in a Heavenly Father?  At first, I felt unsure about everything, which is a good thing, leaving the Church gives you so much compassion for others and their beliefs.  I totally get atheists now, I respect where they're coming from, and I don't think they are the evil people I grew up believing they were.  I get agnostic's, everyone, I respect them, even Mormon, especially Mormons,  I am a Mormon... I understand their beliefs and the commitment they have to them.  When people say that the Bible is not factual, I get that too, it falls apart under scrutiny, just like the Book of Mormon does, I agree with you when you say you don't have any confidence in organized religion, I agree with that, but I also see the  good it does, along with the bad, but the good out weighs the bad in my mind, but an argument can be made the other way too.  I do believe there is a God, and since my concept of who God is... is Heavenly Father, yeah I guess I stick with that.  Why switch that out for another God, since I don't really know for sure, why switch out the one I understand and have prayed to my entire life, and have a history with?  Did prayer get hard for me? Yeah, it did, but there is still that desire to thank God at the end of the day for all the wonderful things in my life, and gratitude is such an important facet of happiness, that I don't want to not have gratitude.  And if God, is really responsible for all the things in my life, which I think He is, I would hate to be ungrateful.

Let me just pause from my conversation with my friend for a moment here to add: I don't think we have a pointless God.. meaning that I think there is great purpose to our life. I believe in a God that has the same destination for all of us, and our life's purpose is to learn and grow.  It's called progression in the Mormon faith and I very much believe in it.  I don't believe in the Mormon idea of progression, if that means we will eventually end up in one of three  kingdoms and remain there for eternity.  Hey, but lets give Mormon's some credit, at least they aren't sending people to Hell to dwell forever just because they don't say a "sinner's pray" (that isn't biblical anyway) or they don't "confess"
Christ just the way some Evangelicals think they should.  Mormon's believe in Christ, and they love Him, they worship Him, and they are grateful for His atonement in their life, they view Christ's atonement as:  their means of salvation, what enables Christ to forgive our sins, and Christ's ability to change our nature.  They believe all of that in spite of their church's attempt to usurp Christ's authority, so that the Church speaks for Christ, the church is Christ, basically in a Mormon's eyes.    That's why Mormon's hold to the Church so strongly, the Church is Christ's gospel, they love Christ, so they of course love His Church, and reverence their leaders way too much, because it's one in the same to them. 

What do I think of Christ?  That question actually comes from Mormon scripture, "what think ye of Christ?"  Well... I have a hope in Him, I love his teachings, I think they are a good way to live your life.  I think the Biblical Christ is hard to prove, but I have a hope in Him, and in His saving ability, if that is necessary, which it might be, but I don't think the purpose of this life is salvation.  Was a Savior necessary for God to send us to this earth so we could progress and learn?  I have always been taught that, and for all I know it may be so, but, like I said, scriptures fall apart under scrutiny, so that just leaves you with faith, doesn't it?  And if that is what you are left with, then I have to give the person who wants to believe the Book of Mormon as scripture as much respect as the person who wants only to believe the Bible as scripture.  They are both a matter of faith in my mind, and cannot be proven as fact or historical.  That maybe where faith comes in, but not about KNOWING, like Mormons like to say they "know."  Mormon's don't "know" anything... anymore then Christians "know" things for sure.  It's all based on faith and teachings and your own personal experiences.  And I'm not slamming anyone's personal feelings, experiences, or faith, it's not my place to do so.  It was Christ that taught us not to judge. 

My friend asked if we felt betrayed by the Church?  I told her yeah, we do.  We feel like we were the faithful spouse, we were loyal, we did everything we were supposed to, we upheld our end of the bargain, and the Church played the harlot.  It lied, it wasn't faithful.  So you are constantly sorting your life out, the good, the bad, that came from spending your entire life in the Church.  I used to see everything good in my life, as a result of being a member, and that may be so, but there is a lot of bad too, mostly in attitudes and in the way you view things.
  
She asked if I thought Joseph Smith was mentally disturbed?  No, I think he was a brilliant con man, and self-aggrandizing womanizer.   But I could be wrong, and I hold that possibility out there.  Did he see God, and translate the Book of Mormon from gold plates?  The evidence strongly suggests that he didn't. Did he bring some truth and enlightenment to the world, yes I think so.  So that's where I give him a little possibility of being... what I don't know, a prophet? I would have to have a new definition for prophet to call him that.   But I certainly don't know all things, and I don't know how God works, remember, our ways are not His ways, and there are the mysteries of God. 
We just don't know exactly how God does things, do we?   It's kind of the mystery of it all that leads you right back to faith again, not knowledge.  I was listening to someone the other day and she was saying that she had to learn to live with uncertainty.  Uncertainty sounds a lot like faith, this life may be based on uncertainty, perhaps faith... why?  Why would God design it that way? I don't know but my thinking is that uncertainty gives you the ability to think, test, and grow, and to come to conclusions, rethink and come to new conclusions, test and grow.  All in all, not a bad plan after all.

The Church Essays in a Nutshell Part Two

     Let's look at two more Church essays called: Book of Mormon Translation and Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham.  I'm trying to keep my analysis of the Church's essays brief, but  there are excellent thorough analysis of them here and here and here and many other places. 

Translation of the Book of Mormon
    
     Growing up in the Church, and still to this day, as far as I know, we are taught that Joseph Smith translated the golden plates by the use of the "Urim and Thummin", which were two clear stones bound together with a metal rim.  I recall being taught in Seminary that there was a table with a curtain that divided it, and Joseph Smith sat behind the curtain on one side of the table, and the scribe sat on the other side of the table.  Joseph Smith had the golden plates on the table as he translated them out loud to the scribe who sat on the other side of the curtain, and wrote down what Joseph Smith said.  The curtain was to keep the scribe from seeing the golden plates, as they were not to be viewed by anyone else but Joseph Smith.  I was taught that it was a matter of faith and that's why the plates were not allowed to be seen by anyone.  And also that they were of great monetary value and needed to be kept hidden from others.  This same scenario is portrayed in various Church pictures that are in our books and in our chapels. You are taught the story and then the pictures are a visual confirmation of what you are taught.  Any small child in the Church could tell you this same story.

Seer Stone

     So what a surprise it is to learn from the Church's essays that, ..."Joseph Smith discovered in the ground years before he retrieved the gold plates, a small oval stone, or 'seer stone'.  As a young man during the 1820's, Joseph Smith, like others in his day, used a seer stone to look for lost and buried treasure.  As Joseph grew to understand his prophetic calling, he learned that he could use this stone for the higher purpose of translating scripture."  Excuse me, this is news to me!  When did this seer stone become part of the narrative?  When were we taught that Joseph Smith found a stone and used it to look for buried treasure?  Never, ever, never, that's when.  I was taught that people tried to accuse Joseph Smith of looking for buried treasure but they were just trying to slander his name,   that they were lying. Now the Church is saying he did hunt for buried treasure.  Did you know that our Prophet and founder of our church was a treasure hunter?  The same person that found the gold plates, was also a treasure hunter.  Boy, you just don't learn this stuff in Seminary, do you? 
     According to the essay, "Apparently for convenience, Joseph often translated with the single seer stone rather then the two stones bound together to form the interpreters.  These two instruments--the interpreters (Urim and Thummim) and the seer stone--were apparently interchangeable and worked in much the same way such that, in the course of time, Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term 'Urim and Thummim' to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters."  Come on!  Are you kidding me?  This stone that Joseph found as a youth, which he used to look for treasures buried in the ground, is now going to be interchangeable with the Urim and Thummim that was carefully stored away and preserved by the Lord for 1,500 hundred years.  Fifteen hundred years, it sat waiting for the time of the restoration of Jesus Christ's gospel on the earth, and now for convenience sake, it will be interchangeable with a rock. Really?  This man who will be tarred and feathered and persecuted, and will know all kinds of hardships, can't be inconvenienced enough to use the Urim and Thummim, that was reserved specifically for the translation of the gold plates? 

Rock in a hat

     But here's the real kicker! ..."Joseph placed either the interpreters or the seer stone in a hat, pressed his face into the hat to block out the extraneous light, and read aloud the English words that appeared on the instrument."  Is that news to you?  I sure haven't seen any pictures in the chapel of Joseph Smith putting his head in a hat and reading from his rock that he found as a youth to translate the golden plates, have you?  The essay says Emma described, "Joseph 'sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us'."  What happened to the curtain? What happened to the gold plates? Why is Joseph burying his head in a hat and translating from a rock he found, when all the pictures show him with the gold plates open on a table and studiously translating from them?

Translation of the Book of Abraham

     This one should be short and sweet.  Well maybe not sweet, but short.  If you are new to all of these issues about the Church, as I was, you will not even know that there are any questions concerning the Book of Abraham.  But this one is huge, it's the issue that caused my husband to completely loose his testimony of the Church. Let's begin with what we were taught.  I learned that Joseph Smith had been shown some Egyptian mummies and papyri from a traveling salesman, of some kind.  As Joseph examined the hieroglyphics he realized that one of the rolls was the writings of Abraham.  The Church collected enough money to buy the ancient records and from them Joseph Smith translated the Book of Abraham.  It says in the introduction to the Book of Abraham, that it was "translated from the papyrus by Joseph Smith" and that it is "the writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus."  
     The original papyri had been sold by Joseph Smith's family.  In 1967, the Church was given what is left of the remaining fragments of the papyri. According to the Church essay, "The fragments included one vignette, or illustration, that appears in the book of Abraham as facsimile 1. Long before the fragments were published by the Church, some Egyptologists had said that Joseph Smith's explanations of the various elements of these facsimiles did not match their own interpretations of these drawings...None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham's name of any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham.  Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham...Scholars have identified the papyrus as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies.  These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived." 
     And that's why this is going to be short, what more can I say?  The essay says it all.  The papyri were not written by Abraham; they are not about Abraham; they are not from the time period of Abraham.   They are common funerary texts and that's most likely why they were found along with mummies!  End of story.  Like I said short, but not sweet.

What we learn from the essays

     Joseph Smith used a seer stone, that he found in his youth to look for buried treasures, to translate the gold plates, by placing the stone in a hat. He often used the stone that he found, instead of the Urim and Thummim that had been preserved for that exact purpose.  Joseph Smith's translation of the papyri which constitutes our book of Abraham, which is part of our scriptures, does not match any of the fragments of the papyri.  The papyri are common funerary texts that were buried with a body.  We have the fragment with facsimile 1 on it,  which is shown in the Book of Abraham, along with Joseph Smith's explanation of it; but Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that characters on the fragment do not match the explanation.   These were not written in Abraham's hand as claimed by Joseph Smith, and they are not from Abraham's time period.

So in other words, everything we were taught about the translation of the Book of Mormon is different from the way it was actually translated, according to the Church's essay.  And in the Book of Abraham, which Joseph Smith was supposed to have translated from the papyri, none of the Egyptian Hieroglyphics match Joseph Smith translation,  He said they were about Abraham and written in his hand.  They turn out to be ordinary funerary texts.   

Family funeral

Yesterday I went to my husband's Aunt Helen's funeral.  Helen lived to be 93 years old.  She was the only girl of nine children; she was the second oldest child, and my father-in-law is just younger than her.  They lived in a two bedroom farmhouse.  Helen got one bedroom and the parents got the other.  The eight boys had to sleep on the screened in front porch, summer, winter, spring and fall. To get to the only bathroom in the house, the boys had to go through Helen's bedroom. As my father-in-law told this story, I had visions of this poor girl never getting any sleep with eight brothers tromping through her room all night long.

Helen was raised LDS, her mother's side goes back into early pioneer stock and her father's side came from converts in Norway in the mid 1860's.  Helen married a nonmember and never attended the Church in her adults years, nor did several of her brothers; but her other brothers were active all their lives, including my father-in-law, who served as a bishop, in a stake presidency, and as a stake patriarch. 

It was a simple funeral, held at the funeral home. Helen has two daughters who asked my father-in-law to conduct and be in charge of the funeral program, which he has done many times because of the positions he has held. Dad, my father-in-law, is a kind gracious person who did a wonderful job.  Although, he did tell a story about Helen that she asked him not to tell... but brothers will be brothers, apparently even at your funeral!  But beside the story, of Helen throwing a pair of scissors at dad, which apparently landed in his thigh, he gave a beautiful account of her life and the kind of person she was.  Dad said that Helen is in heaven now with her mother and father, and her husband.  Very nice, nothing preachy and nothing that would be any different from a typical Christian funeral service. 

Then Helen's younger brother spoke.  He started out by saying he had been assigned to do the spiritual talk for the funeral.  He then rattled off the basic points of the "plan of salvation" including the war in heaven, the need for free agency, Satan's plan, our premortal life, why we are here, where we are going, etc.  He ended with leaving his testimony that all the things that he talked about were true.  As he spoke, I had so many thoughts go through my head. And my analysis is not meant to be a criticism of him, just an observation.

To begin with, the daughters are not members of the Church, and like I said, Helen hadn't gone her entire adult life.  So, for about 75 years, she had not attended the Mormon church; but somehow she got a Mormon funeral, even in the funeral home!  The most striking thing about this whole thing to me was the way the Church usurps the family.  This Church, that proclaims family is at the foundation of it's doctrine, comes in time after time and usurps the family, always placing itself before the family; or I should say we willingly put it before the family, thinking that putting the Church first is putting the family first.  But it's not, it's putting the Church first, at the expense of the family, relationship's, and people's feelings.  Take her younger brother's first remark, "I've been assigned to talk..". who talks like that?  Someone who has lost sight that he is actually speaking at his sister's funeral.  He forgot she has daughters that are not members, and they most likely had no idea about, nor cared about his, "plan of salvation".   Who says, "they have been assigned" at their sister's funeral?  Only someone who has let the protocol of the Church overtake their thinking, and they can't even relax at a service for their sister, and just talk about her, without having to hold a church meeting and do things the way the church instructs.  Namely assigning people to talk.  So when my father-in-law, asked him to speak at the funeral, he was incapable of seeing it as a brother asking another brother to speak at their sister's funeral.  He saw it as a Church assignment and proceeded to carry it out as one, all the time missing the fact that this was his sister's funeral and all that was needed was a personal remark from her brother.  She didn't need him to use her funeral as an opportunity to "spread the gospel" to a room of trapped people who were going to listen to the Mormon plan of salvation, whether they wanted to or not.  I just kept thinking how insensitive we are as members' of the Church, that we can't see two daughters that are at their mother's funeral and the last thing they probably wanted was a sermon on a belief system that they do not believe in. 

But people are for the most part gracious, and the daughters didn't say anything, they might not have even minded.  But why take the chance?  It's just not necessary to spread our beliefs around at every opportunity.  Especially at someone's mother's funeral.  I'm sure that all the members in attendance there thought it was just wonderful, and I'm sure for all the others in attendance, the message fell on deaf ears.

This is not the younger brother's fault.  He has been trained from his youth, to honor his Priesthood.  And sharing the gospel is an extension of that.  And if there is an opportunity to do that, it will be foremost in a priesthood holder's mind.  He thinks he's just doing what Jesus wants him to.  And doing what Jesus wants us to is a powerful thing!  So powerful, that we do things for him that he never asked us to, and we do all kinds of things in his name, that he never did. Mormons are certainly not the only ones guilty of that. 

A Child of God

Sunday morning I listened to Shawn McCraney (of Born again Mormon fame) talk about being, a child of God.  Then at church, the Sacramento temple president spoke and he too talked about, being a child of God.  They both had different takes on it, I wonder if they could both be right?

Shawn told of his "born again" experience; he was listening to a preacher on the radio while driving to pick his daughters up. The preacher asked, "if you can make yourself righteous why haven't you done so"?  On his mission he had tried, through his callings he had tried, through strict obedience he had tried, by talking with his bishop he had tried.  Then the preacher said, "the reason that you haven't made yourself perfect and presentable before God is because you can't."  This made sense to Shawn because he thought, no matter what I do, what rites I perform, or how I dress, or clean shaven, nothing was going to change the inside of me, because I can't do it on my own.  The message from this preacher was that it was Jesus and His life and His righteousness and atonement, His suffering, and by having Him in your life you become a new person.  He pulled over and prayed to Heavenly Father, telling Him that he was a sinful man, and "I can't get over myself no matter what I have tried.  Will you forgive me of my sins through Jesus Christ.  Jesus will you come into my heart and take over my life from this time forward, I will do anything if you will do this.  I'll wait for you to do it." 

The temple president in his talk explained that there is a big difference between being a child of God as opposed to being a creation of God.  He said, when we are baptized our sins are washed away and the Holy Ghost is the companion to those who are faithful to their covenants and will have inheritance in the Celestial Kingdom. Without the ordinances there is no power of Celestial Glory.  Baptism and the Holy Ghost are the gateway to that.  There are three levels and the highest is exaltation.  Our ordinances lead to living the kind of life God lives.  The love of God is to return to him and live in his presence. 

Could they both be right?

I get what Shawn McCraney is saying, and I completely agree with him.  He's talking about a born again experience; and if you have never had that experience you don't know what he's talking about and if you have you know exactly that he's talking about.  Oh, let me finish explaining to you what he said.  He said he was willing to wait on Jesus in his prayer.  And when he finished his prayer, he hoped he would be a changed person, but he wasn't.  When he got to the gym, he was early, so while he waited, he remembered four instances in his life when people had testified to him about Jesus and his love.  By the time his daughters reached the car, he had a new heart.  I believe him, I have experienced this change of heart too.  It completely changes your thinking, you become a new creature in Christ.  Your nature has been changed.  Some may wonder how it comes so quickly, in reality it wasn't quick, it had been a lifetime of preparation, and when Shawn had suffered enough, and humbled himself and went to the right source, which is God, he was born again!   

Had the temple president experienced that? Probably not, he most likely would have talked a bit differently, not relied so heavily on the ordinances, talked more about Christ like he knew Him, and may have had a personal story to tell, like Shawn.  I know Shawn's story is true, it's a story of someone who is humble and confesses his sins to God and acknowledges that he needs Him, he tried but he can't change who he is on his own.  It's a beautiful story of how the Savior changed him,  And I agree with all of that. If you don't humble yourself before God and really give everything to Him, and know that you are nothing, you will never have this experience. And Mormon's do miss this a lot.  They have the tools to take them there, but seldom use them to get to Christ.  They get so caught up in the "tools" that they don't use them to find out what Christ can do, how He really can change them, really and truly be born again.  But it's a journey and no one is finished with their journey yet, even in the next world.  I don't think God worries about this, He knows this and allows us to grow at our own pace, learning as we go.  He is a very loving father and very understanding and patient.     

So, what was the temple president saying?  He said there was a big difference between being a creation of God and a child of God.   I agree with that.  A child of God is someone who has been born again.  He said when we are baptized our sins are washed away and the Holy Ghost is the companion of those who are faithful to their covenants.  Baptism is symbolic of a new creature that emerges when you are born again and Christ has saved you.  Saved you from what?  It's a good question.  Saved comes from the Greek word "sodzo" which means to be keep safe, to save a suffering one.  Could it be that Christ keeps you safe in His watchful care, in His kingdom, while he saves you from suffering for your sins?  That Christ on the cross, through his infinite atonement, by turning to Him and trusting in his ability to change you, clean you up, transform you into a new creature, saves you from having to suffer for your sins.  He did that for you, you don't have to suffer for your sins to pay the price of justice.  Justice is served through Christ.  That's His love for us, that's his gift.  We can live this life and learn as we go without being held to the justice that would require us to suffer for our sins.  If we don't accept His offer, we will suffer, not as a punishment per se but as a school teacher.  Our suffering becomes the school teacher.  We already live that principle, maybe not knowingly, but we do live it.  We either learn through our suffering, and change, or we continue to suffer.  If you give that some careful thought you will know that it's true. 

The temple president also said, without the ordinances, there is no power of Celestial Glory.  It can easily be argued, from the scriptures, that there is more than one heaven or at least levels to heaven.  From a Mormon's point of view, the Celestial Glory is the highest heaven or level of heaven.  I believe what he's saying is, that it's necessary to be faithful to the covenants that you make to be able to go to the Celestial Glory. Again, where I think most Mormon's miss the mark, is that they fall in love with the covenants and forget that they are tools.  They are not the saving device, they are a reminder of the saving device, which is Christ.  But Mormon's are a lot like the Jews at the time of Christ, they loved their law and forgot that it was a tool, not salvation in and of itself.  I believe that's why the temple president, loves the ordinances, believes in them, and hopes in them, but doesn't have a personal story to tell about how they led him to Christ, to be born again, because I think he's still on that journey.  Which by the way, I might add, he has every right to still be on that journey, as God patiently waits for him to figure it out. 

I take issue with that. 

Now, I do have to take issue with the mission president.  He says, "our ordinances lead to living the kind of life that God lives".  Well that's true, BUT only if we find Christ; and that's the problem, that's why Shawn McCraney was so miserable!  He kept thinking that living his ordinances were going to make him Christ like.  Which they don't do, unless we can gain ears to hear and eyes to see and learn that these ordinances are nothing in and of themselves, they are only symbolic and the real path to Christ is through humility, a broken heart and a contrite spirit.  The problem with ordinances today, is the same problem with ordinances in the past, living them requires a little sacrifice, so it's easy to think that your little sacrifice has value, and it's easy to become prideful of your sacrifice and the ordinances take over as your salvation.  Because in reality living those ordinances is easier then humbling yourself and finding Christ, so instead we fall in love with the ordinances.

Again, can they both be right?

Can they both be right?  I think so.  I think they both tell of paths they have traveled. One has a born again story to tell and the other has the hope of a born again story to tell, he just doesn't fully understand that yet. And I think God is very patient with us on our path.  Anyone that says, "I have the exact way", or "your Christ is a different Christ then the one in the Bible", I just reject that outright.  Who gave them the right to define that?  And who has the right to say, "our church is the only way, our ordinances are what you need to be saved."  But if you have found love and peace, and a tolerance for your fellowman, and are able to grasp the good in them and learn from others, then you are probably on the right path.  And may your life be filled with peace and love.

Someone is Lying

Since I haven't done so yet, let me explain how my faith crisis came about... someone was lying. Not just anyone mind you, an Apostle of the Lord!  A little over a year ago, I was preparing a lesson for my YW class.  I was searching on the internet, when I came across a PBS interview with Elder Holland.  I couldn't believe what I was reading! The interviewer asked him about the priesthood ban on the blacks, here's the question he asked Elder Holland:

I've talked to many blacks and many whites as well about the lingering folklore [about why blacks couldn't have the priesthood]. These are faithful Mormons who are delighted about this revelation, and yet who feel something more should be said about the folklore and even possibly about the mysterious reasons for the ban itself, which was not a revelation; it was a practice. So if you could, briefly address the concerns Mormons have about this folklore and what should be done.

Let me explain at this point, I was a completely devout Mormon, married in the temple, raised our family in the church. I never questioned anything about the church.  So when I read this question, the first thing that seems odd to me, is the use of the word "folklore", I had never heard that word used to describe any of our doctrine, "folklore" why was this interviewer calling our doctrine "folklore"?

This was Elder Holland's response:

One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated. ...

What?  Why was Elder Holland expounding on the word "folklore"?  Why didn't he refute it by saying, this was not folklore, this was a revelation from God.  I had been taught my entire life that the ban on the blacks was a revelation from God and that the reason for the ban was that black people were from the lineage of Cain and that curse was placed on them because of Cain killing Abel.  These people were less valiant in the pre-existence, therefore they came to earth through that lineage.  Elder Holland went on to say:

I have to concede to my earlier colleagues. ... They, I'm sure, in their own way, were doing the best they knew to give shape to [the policy], to give context for it, to give even history to it. All I can say is however well intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong. ...
It probably would have been advantageous to say nothing, to say we just don't know, and, [as] with many religious matters, whatever was being done was done on the basis of faith at that time. But some explanations were given and had been given for a lot of years. ... At the very least, there should be no effort to perpetuate those efforts to explain why that doctrine existed. I think, to the extent that I know anything about it, as one of the newer and younger ones to come along, ... we simply do not know why that practice, that policy, that doctrine was in place.

Now my mouth is hanging open!  Did he just say ... we simply do not know why that practice, that policy, that doctrine was in place. 

What is he talking about?  First of all he is an Apostle, so how can he not know how a doctrine came about?  AND, I thought our doctrine came from God.  How could he say he doesn't know?  I thought ALL our doctrine came from God.  That's what I had been taught my entire life.  And by the way, this is not some insignificant doctrine!  This is huge, racist, life altering, life denigrating doctrine.  It attacks the character of all black people.

At this point I get up to find my husband. I read him what Elder Holland said in the interview.  I ask him, did you know that an Apostle could claim to not know where our doctrine comes from?  He was as shocked as I was.  Then I hear my self say, "Elder Holland is lying."  He has to be, there are only two choices, either he's the dumbest member of the church I have ever run across to say he doesn't know where that doctrine came from, or he's lying.  All of his squirming around and saying as, one of the newer and younger ones to come along... blah blah blah, have you ever had a child lie to you?  You can see right through it, and I could see right through his lies. 

Next, I began to see a pattern of lies.  Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, had one thing in common... many wives.  They even had some of the same wives in common.  Brigham married several of Josephs wives after Joseph was killed.  But with all of this in common they couldn't get their story straight... one of them is lying.  Joseph said in his 1844 Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo, "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.  I am the same man and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."  In an 1838  Elder's Journal, Joseph answered the Question: Do Mormons believe in having more wives than one?  The answer,  No, not at the same time.  But they believe that if their companion dies, they have a right to marry again..."  

So here we have Joseph Smith saying he only has one wife and that Mormons believe in only one wife at a time, monogamy in other words.  Yet the Church says he was a polygamist; they show his multiple wives on their family search website, and they have D&C 132 in their canon of scriptures that clearly states the acceptance of polygamy and the rules for it.  So again, someone is lying!

Brigham was a big polygamist, we all know that.  He taught about polygamy numerous times in his sermons, these quotes, among many others, can be found in the Journal of Discourses: 

      Brother Cannon remarked that people wondered how many wives and children I had.  He may inform them that I shall have wives and children by the millions, and glory, and riches, and power, and dominion, and Kingdom after Kingdom, and reign triumphantly.
    
     Talk about polygamy! There is no true philosopher on the face of the earth but what will admit that such a system, properly carried out according to the order of heaven, is far superior to monogamy for the raising of healthy, robust children!

And these are just a few of Brigham's quotes found in the Deseret News:
    
     Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned; and I will go still further, and say that this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord had given, and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
    
     Why do we believe in and practice polygamy?  Because the Lord introduced it to his servants in a revelation given to Joseph Smith, and the Lord's servants have always practiced it. And is that religion popular in heaven?  It is the only popular religion there...

Then we have a recent prophet, President Hinckley, comment on polygamy in a Larry King interview.   When asked if he condemns it, President Hinckley said:

      I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think it is not doctrinal. 

Again, I hate to keep repeating myself, but someone is lying!! Either it's not doctrinal as President Hinckley says, or you're going to be damned if you deny it, as Brigham Young said,  Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned..

President Hinckley, in the same interview, said "When our people came west they permitted it on a restricted scale... The figures that I have are from--between two and five percent of our people were involved in it.   The Church's own essay on plural marriage states, that the "practice of plural marriage was instituted among members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in the early 1840's. Well, that's before they came west. The essay also states that:  "Probably half of those living in Utah Territory in 1857 experienced life in a polygamous family as a husband, wife, or child at some time during their lives."  That's just ten years after they came west. If half of the people would be involved in polygamy as a family member sometime in their life, then it was on a much larger scale then "two to five percent," as President Hinckley said. Then to illustrate how the number diminished, the essay says: "By 1870, 25 to 30 percent of the population lived in polygamous households, and it appears the percentage continued to decrease over the next 20 years." Again, do I need to say it?  Someone is lying.  And I'm not going to couch it in terms like, "well his facts may not have been accurate, or he didn't know".  Sorry, if you are going to go before the world and proclaim yourself the Prophet of the world, Christ's mouthpiece on the earth, then you have no excuse for bad data, you are the Prophet. Sorry, either you're lying or the essay is. That's just how life is, to coin a phrase from President Hinckley, I still believe in, "right is right and wrong is wrong."  I was taught by this church that any intent to deceive is a lie, and I'm holding our leaders to that standard.







   

Conversation with a gay return missionary, part 3

Part 3, a continuation of my conversation with a friend.  (my questions/comments are in red, his answers are in green)



Maybe you have answered this in other questions, but have you found peace and healing and if so how?

When I stopped fighting who I knew that I was, and who I am, that's when I found ultimate peace.  I didn't have to worry anymore that I was sinning or that other people were looking at me differently, or I would have to go see my Bishop next week, or not be able to take the sacrament.  Or not having to feel the fear of, okay I didn't take the sacrament, who's looking at me, what are they thinking of me?  When I let all of those barriers and fears of inadequacy completely go, and I could just fully embrace life and the freedom to be me, that's when I found the most happiness.  Because when I was going to church, I was always afraid of being judged, even though as members we are taught not to judge.  But I was guilty of the same thing,  I looked around to see who wasn't taking the sacrament, and thinking, I wonder what they did?  One thing that I really hated was sitting in the congregation and thinking that the Bishop was starring at me because I had just met with him the week before.  And I always felt in the back of my head that he always thought about what I had done.  I always had that fear of, what was he thinking?  They always said that a Bishop is so loving and caring, and they are, don't get me wrong, but why did it make me feel so inadequate, and so dirty, and so sinful?  That part I never understood.  I think a lot of it was based out of fear, okay I just took the sacrament and I wasn't worthy, what's going to happen to my salvation? Oh, I better go repent, I better go tell the Bishop, I  stole something, or I looked a pornography or I cheated on a test.  When I felt so badly and let someone else have that kind of power over me, that kind of influence over me, I wasn't able to just be, to be totally and completely free. 

Do you think it's ironic, that we allow these men to be in charge of our salvation?

It's so crazy for me to even fathom, that we go in and talk to a Bishop and they say, okay you struggle with this, I need to know more.  I don't get that.  Even when I was a member, I never did get that part.  I hope that answers your question, I think when I didn't limit myself to a certain religion, or certain congregation or a specific kind of person, it really opened my eyes to a lot of really incredible experiences.   For one, the friends that I have now, I could never image having allowed them to be in my life if I was still an active member of the church. 

 What advice would you have for others in a similar situation as you, especially return missionaries?

The first thing that comes to my mind is to not loose who you are, to not loose yourself, not to be overwhelmed.  I've been there and I have done that, and it was so overwhelming to be back in the world.  Give it time, don't be ashamed of who you are.  What I would advise, and easier said than done, because I've been there, I've been down that road, I've lived with the fear of what if somebody finds out that I'm gay?  How are people going to react and are they still going to be my friend when they find out that I'm gay.  Looking back it was a huge thing.  It was a big deal, it was like earth shattering to me, it really was.  I consumed it, it thought it, I breathed it, I ate it, I worried about it, I lost sleep over it, I made myself sick over it.  Umm... just to really give it time, to just be you, don't allow others to dictate your happiness and who you are and who you want to be, I just think that, life is too short to live the way others want you to live.  Embrace it, don't be afraid to be different, and if people do see you as different, that's okay.  Again, it's not the end of the world, but when I was in that situation is was my world, it was everything to me, and I thought it all come tumbling down and for a while it did, but I picked myself up and brushed myself off and I found my way.

What advice would you have for church leaders when they have a gay person come to them?

Yes, the word force should never be counsel that you give to a young man or woman that's having trouble with their sexuality.  I don't think that we should ever teach someone to force themselves to be someone they are not.  And I really felt that I was dirty and that I was less of a person, that I was a sinner, that I was making all these mistakes.   I really think that the church leaders need to understand that the counsel that they give or don't give is damaging.  It's killing a lot of youth, I know that in the last few years there were quite a few young men in the church that were struggling with coming out, that took their own lives, and I think that it comes back to the pressure that these church leaders are putting upon these men that are coming out.  There was so much pressure to keep that hidden, keep that quiet, it destroys the way you think about yourself, the way you see yourself, the way you live, it just takes everything out of you. It completely rips your soul from your body, it damaging.  And you know, I also think, when I was going through that, I wish they could have been more understanding, that they would have been more patient.  That they really would have been less afraid to say, you know this is wrong, Heavenly Father isn't happy with the choice that you are making.  I really think that at that age you are so vulnerable and you are already going through so much, that that should never be a part of the conversation, that you are not good enough, you need to go to the temple more often and read your scriptures, and you need to see the Stake President more often.  I think that church leader should teach that you should embrace yourself.  When they want to teach that we should be the exact same, and fit that cookie cutter mold, that's the issue.  I think the church, or any organization for that matter would function so much better if they allowed diversity, and they allowed other to think for themselves and not the way their church leader wants them to think.  I really think that's the issue. 

Do you think they understand that they are possibly dealing with life and death situations, and the way that they handle it could actually mean life or death to someone?

I look at myself, for years I was suicidal, I took antidepressants, I was in and out of doctors offices, I didn't want to live any more, I was depressed, I couldn't get out of bed.  It almost killed me, the judgment of others almost killed me, so I would agree with you that that is true, that these are life and death matters. 

Do you think they have any inkling that they are dealing with something like that?  When you were talking with your Bishop, do you think he understood that you might be in such a situation as that, and that the way he was handling it could effect whether you lived or not?

I think that part of the problem, is that they don't understand.  And I don't think they have taken the time to want to understand.  If it's not in the church manual, if it's not what the first presidency has come out with, then he can't teach it. 

It seems that all they can see is this big sin, and they have a hard time seeing past that.

They can't.  They can't see, here's an incredible young man, that is worthy to reach out for my help.  What am I going to do to help him?  Forget the church, forget the teachings, as a human being, what can I do to help this individual, to not kill himself or not be depressed?  Just humanity, what can I do to help save this person? 

What advice would you give to parents/families that find out they have a gay child?  By the way I think your family did a very good job.

I would agree and disagree, I would agree to the fact that they didn't kick me out of the family, they didn't disown me, they didn't say we can't love you as much.  They never approached it like that, and for that I'm so thankful, because I think that would have pushed me even further over the edge than I was at that point.  They were always very loving, very accepting. I always think back to my little sister, she was always so understanding.  She asked question after question after question, and wanted to know what I was thinking and how it made me feel and I remember her asking me, "well have you ever kissed a guy or held a guy's hand?" and I was like, no, and she said, "well how do you know your gay?" "Just go try it, you may find out you love it or you may hate it, then you will know."  That's advice that I will never forget, she was like, "just go try it, there's no harm in that."  "There's nothing wrong in wanting to explore the way that you feel."  She said, "that doesn't make you a bad person, I don't look at you any differently."  But I think that's the issue, I even have a good friend here in SLC.  She just came out to her parents, they are not religious, they are not anything, they completely disowned her, they said we will not associate with you, if you choose to live that way.  So I don't necessarily think its an LDS viewpoint of disowning you or we don't agree with that,  I just think as a society we don't know how to deal with it.  To be honest with you I think my version of homosexuality and being gay is probably different then some of my friends, I think there are different levels and different degrees of what homosexuality is.  And I think that I'm still trying to discover what I think it means to me.  Because I don't think that I understand it for myself still.  I know that it's something that I enjoy and it feels natural to me, but I'm not sure I understand, big picture, what it's going to mean for me down the road. 

That's an interesting point, because you mentioned that before, that you didn't exactly know what being gay meant to you.  I wouldn't think that you would still not have an understanding of it.  But that's interesting, just like any other person doesn't have an understanding of certain things right?

Yes, and to add to that, I think what I'm still trying to figure out is: I know that I'm gay, but for me to be completely happy being gay, do I need to be in a relationship and have kids?  That's what I'm trying to figure out for myself.  I know that I want kids, and I'd like to be a partner with one person and have kids, have a family. I know that's what I want, but I don't know if that's what's going to bring me the most happiness, later on down the road, that's what I'm trying to figure out, am I going to be a happy single gay man and just date, whatever, or do I really want kids and be committed and have that one person for the rest of my life.  I don't really know that I do.

So how are you going to figure that out?

Good question.  I think it's one of those things that I will have to experience and by trial and error just try to figure it out.  I remember it was so lonely and miserable when I was in Boise. All I wanted was the companionship of someone.  I wanted someone to be there and to love me, but now I think as I have matured, and I have grown, I think my viewpoint is much different now.  I don't think that I'm as dependent on someone else. I think I'm far more independent, then most people, I love my space, I like to be alone.  So I went from one extreme to the next.  I wanted to be with someone, I was depressed that I wasn't with someone, that no one liked me, that I couldn't find someone to be with, then, now that I've found someone, it's just kind of like, do I really want this, or do I want to be independent and single? 

Okay, those are just the same emotions as a straight person, right? 

As far as I know, I assume that's correct, I don't know. 

Those seem like pretty typical emotions that anyone could experience.

Yes, absolutely.

Here's my last question, this is what I'm beginning to wonder, perhaps God puts us down here in different categories, different races, different religions, different sexualities, we are all in these different groups in different ways. Do you think that He does that, so that we learn to look outside our group, to overcome prejudices and learn to love others?  Is that a possibility?

It's kind of an oxymoron, it's like the church teaches charity, which is the pure love of Christ, it's pretty safe to assume that most members are not okay about accepting diversity.  So it's interesting that you pose the question that way.  I absolutely one hundred percent agree that that is part of the "test".  I really do believe that that is part of the bigger picture, for all of us to be different, for all of us to look and see that diversity is okay.  That someone with tattoos or a nose ring or black or Russian, or someone that has maybe one arm or no legs, I really think that diversity was put here on this earth for us to learn to love each other. 












 

Hastening the work, the Church of Missionary Work

I used to think I belonged to the Church of Jesus Christ, but I have discovered this past year, that I actually belong to the Church of Missionary Work, or as it's more affectionately called: Hastening the Work.  Unless you've been living under a rock I'm sure you've heard of it too.  A year or so ago, while I was then serving as the Young Women's president in our ward, our Stake President began a new program called, Hasten the Work of Salvation. Which was a focus on missionary and rescue efforts in the wards, being led by the auxiliary leaders.  From what I remember, it was kind of a flow chart with the general idea being that, each leader was to bring 2 names from inactive or part member families that the missionaries could teach, so they could meet their 20 lessons per week goal.  Our weekly Ward Counsel meetings were now going to alternate each week with a Ward Missionary Counsel meeting, where plans for the activation of these individuals were assigned, also our weekly presidency meetings were supposed to include these missionary efforts.

Next I began to see an increase in missionary topic sacrament meetings, by a large measure. To the point that, it seemed that was all we were talking about.  All of this missionary effort made me come to a few conclusions.  One that struck me immediately was that as the Young Women's leader, I was never asked if I was willing to head up this new missionary effort in the ward. If I had been, I would have told the Bishop that I wasn't.  Not because I was fearful of it, I just basically don't believe in it very much.  Second, as our focus turned to missionary work in Sacrament meeting, I didn't hear much about Christ, even though Nephi says, we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ.  You would think you would hear a lot about Christ, if you are talking about converting people to him, but surprisingly no, there wasn't!  My husband and I were gone to Idaho for the summer, the first sacrament meeting that we returned home, the High Councilor spoke on, you guessed it, missionary work! Again, not much about Christ in that message either.  It was mostly a recount of a bunch of failed missionary attempts.  I wasn't sure if his stories were supposed to be inspiring or "don't let this happen to you" examples.  

The thought has occurred to me on more than one occasion as we talk endlessly about missionary work, that if there really happened to be an investigator at church, wouldn't they begin to think that they were one of these people that everyone is being "encouraged" to bring to church to convert, and wouldn't they want to run for the door.  Not only that, but if there was an investigator there, they certainly weren't being fed the gospel of Christ, they were getting an extra helping of the gospel of The Church of Missionary Work, and who would want to join that?  I have always thought that if we just talked of Christ, rejoiced in Christ, and preached of Christ, as Nephi said we do, the missionary efforts would increase on their own without the new man made programs.  We would be better people, we would serve and treat others out of love, and per chance that someone did enter through our doors looking for a church that taught about Christ, they would find one.